Former Postmaster General and CEO of Nigeria Postal Service, Bisi Adegbuyi, speaks to DANIEL AYANTOYE about the need for political reforms in the country, among other issues
The request by President Bola Tinubu to deploy troops to Niger Republic was rejected by the Senate. What is your take on this?
Based on the preponderance of opinion from well-meaning Nigerians and the circumstance in which Nigeria has currently found itself, I do not think Nigeria should be involved in any kind of war with Niger Republic with the purpose of sustaining democracy. Yes, democracy is desirable and the best form of government, but we need to look at our priorities. What exactly do we stand to gain from going into this war? What is the cost-benefit analysis of it?
First, we need to remind ourselves that the people of Niger are close to Nigeria and it is more or less like waging a war on some part of the North. When Nigeria went into peacekeeping in Liberia, Nigeria could afford it because the economy was in good shape. Recall that we spent around $8bn on that war. Can Nigeria which is struggling to keep up with debt payment, struggling to deliver good governance to the people afford to go to that kind of war? For me, it is a no-go area. Diplomacy is the way to go and from what we are reading and seeing, I believe diplomacy will prevail.
But the fight is to be handled by ECOWAS and not Nigeria and they earlier said they would be applying military action, are you not in support of that?
I am not in support of it. In terms of human and material costs to us, it will be too costly to bear, not to mention that this is an area where international players are involved and we need to be mindful of that. It is a very tricky situation. We know that because we are waging war against terrorists, we shouldn’t allow that part to be a breeding ground for terrorists, but I believe that we should find another means to solve it because we can’t just afford it. Let them continue to engage the coup plotters and one interesting thing about this is that Nigeriens are in support of the junta. If people are celebrating that a democratically elected government has been ousted, it simply means they are in support of the status quo; that is a revolution. Nigeria cannot afford to cry more than the bereaved. Again, this is not a way of appraising the arrival of the junta, but it is a wake-up call that politicians must up their game and stop giving democracy a bad name.
Some believe that the failure of the government to allow the people to enjoy the dividends of democracy led to the revolt in Niger. What is your advice to Nigerian leaders in this regard?
The foundation for a good government is to ensure that the greatest good is made available to the greatest number. There is a need to put all necessary things in place with a view to giving good governance to the people. Mr President has started well; he works further to ensure that this democracy is sustained by ensuring that the wishes of the people are met. But in meeting the wishes of the people, there are fundamentals that you must address. One of such fundamentals is the need for Mr President to embark on massive political reforms with a view to cutting the cost of governance. Democracy in Nigeria is too expensive. We need to ensure that the high recurrent expenditure is reduced in order to free resources for social governance with a view to sustaining democracy. In matters of priority, we cannot say that is what Mr President should do immediately. He has embarked on a series of actions within this period.
Do you think there should be security concerns about some foreigners in the country who are difficult to identify most of whom are now commercial motorcycle riders, gatemen, shoemakers, etc?
It is a very tricky situation and I believe we must be very careful in the way we handle this matter considering the fact that we share a border with them (Niger). One of the major concerns that I have is the readiness of the Wagner group, the private army, who sometimes was involved in the Russia-Ukraine war, they have a presence in Nigeria. As a matter of fact, the head of that group has been quoted to say that the Nigerien people have not been enjoying the dividend of democracy and that is why they are revolting against the government of the day, claiming that he is ready to support them. You also remember that the people in a rally were praising the President of Russian, Vladimir Putin. So, it’s complicated. There is no easy way to do it. The point is that the Nigerien people are supporting the coupists, and I hope people are not missing that point. So why should any external government interfere in its internal affairs?
Don’t you think there is a need for proper documentation of foreigners in Nigeria?
You are absolutely spot on. That in a way brings on to the idea of digital identity management. I recall that one Rev. Sunday Adelaja once said that Nigeria should begin to embark on digital identification of its citizens in order for us to make progress. I agree with him absolutely. And as a foremost advocate of Digital Addressing and Identity Management in Nigeria, I believe that is the way to go because we really need to know who Nigerians are. In knowing who Nigerians are, you now have to give them identity and you also need to know where they live. That is the fundamental principle of ‘who and where’. Nigeria needs to as a matter of urgency deploy this in order to be able to plan for the people. This is very crucial in 21st century digital economy governance. I am aware that President Tinubu is knowledgeable in technology and will ensure that technology is deployed in this regard.
Can that technology also account for people who don’t have houses and live under bridges?
Absolutely! What we have done is leverage technology by dividing Nigeria into three meters by three meters grid, each with a unique digital address. Everywhere is geo-located, even the Sambisa forest is covered. There is nowhere that will be left out if you adopt the digital addressing system initiative. Another thing is that it is also a veritable tool that we can use to check the proliferation of arms. People who bring in arms do so freely because their addresses are not validated. If we embark on a system whereby the consignor and the consignee are properly validated and they are aware that the weapons with them can be traced via the digital addresses, they will stop. Also, it gives you an idea to know what to do to deliver good governance to the people. In the area of giving palliative, the government can use Digital Addressing and Identity first to know who the people you want to cater for are; the government cannot plan for you if they don’t know where you live. Once they introduce this, they will be able to draw a credible and reliable national register with which palliatives can be distributed.
How do you think the National Identity Management Commission can best be managed to support the efforts of the government in tackling insecurity?
NIMC has been issuing National Identity numbers to Nigerians, which is a step in the right direction to ensure that people are properly identified, but that does not go far enough because the last mile of the identification process is the digital addressing system. If you give an identity number to a person and you don’t know where he stays, you have not completed the job. All over the world, the bedrock of identity system is technology.
Some say that the large size of Nigeria is one of the reasons why it is difficult to manage a good database. Do you agree with this perception and how do you think it can be addressed?
I don’t believe our size is the problem, but because we have refused to adopt the greatest technology, we are not taking advantage of what a digital economy offers. India is bigger than Nigeria; they have a functional equivalent of our National Identity number. Once you have the appropriate technology which I am aware of, we will be able to achieve much more than the digital economy has to offer. That is why you will hardly see well-organised and developed economies without a robust digital addressing system. In the United Kingdom, they have National ID, called NI. It’s a sine qua non for you to access government social services. In the US, it is called social security number which is our equivalent of NIN, but in those two countries, there is nowhere they have not tied their identity number to a verifiable, feasible location.
It offers the government the opportunity to set priorities, plan for the people. Digital Addressing can be used as a veritable tool to lift people out of poverty, which is a major challenge for us in Nigeria. If you look at the 20 most developed countries in the world, they have their postal administration well developed, and they don’t joke with their addressing system. This takes me to the need for the government of Nigeria to develop its postal administration because that is a massive infrastructure.
There are duplications of registrations with the issuance of different cards like the National ID card, voter card and ATM card. Don’t you think there should be a way to incorporate them into one?
I agree with you and this is a very important point. What Nigeria needs to do is embark on what they call the convergence of data as they do in Ghana. There, they have a national card and it is tied to a verifiable digital location. In essence, the NIN, passport, tax identification number, ATM and bank cards should all be converged into one card which Nigerians can then use for several things. For instance, without Ghana’s National Card, you cannot vote there. That’s not the case in Nigeria because we haven’t tied our PVC to a digitally verified address and in any case, the addresses on our PVCs are old addresses and that is the gap that we intend to bridge by first ensuring that government taps into the digital addressing system, which will address such situation as you mentioned. It will be a convergence of data and all the data will be inputted into one card and then you can use the card to do many things.
The country is currently preparing for a national population census. In the past, some have disputed the figures; what are the challenges you foresee and how can they be best addressed?
We use the population in Nigeria as a criterion for distributing the ‘national cake’ as it were. The number of local governments in Nigeria determines the amount of revenue that the state will share from the national budget. But I believe what we can do is deploy appropriate technology and embark on a digitally organised process for population censors. We at ‘The Grassroots Addressing and Identity Network’ intend to collaborate with Nigerian Population Commission so that they can use our technology to be a tech-driven population census that will be devoid of controversies of the past.
How best do you think the government can introduce palliatives that will not be hijacked by corrupt people in the system?
The first is to deploy the technology. Technology makes corruption difficult. Once you don’t have a man-to-man relationship, it reduces corruption. If you deploy a digital address into the process and it is incorporated into the social register, there is no way anybody can inflate the number of people they are giving money to, because this is a document that we can audit. Don’t also forget that the Federal Government has in a way decentralised the subsidy palliatives by telling states to develop their own social register that will be reliable. Now, states must ensure that in coming up with their social register, they must ensure that it must have digital addresses and identification of people.
Don’t you think the local government should play a major role in the process of developing a social register in the states?
I agree with you. Constitutionally, the local government has responsibility for street names and addressing. They are closest to the people. Ideally, the whole exercise should be driven by the local government. But you now know that they have been emasculated in Nigeria, and that is why some people are clamouring for the LGAs to be brought back, which also underscores my position on political reforms. Without President Bola Tinubu ensuring political reforms, there is no way we can bring LGs back to effective governance. Because those that will be the direct beneficiary of the palliatives are in the local governments.
The Senate on Monday completed the screening and confirmation of 45 nominees. How will you describe the exercise?
The screening will not solve the problem that we have in Nigeria. I believe that political reforms, which will introduce a new system of government that will cut the cost of governance, are the way to go. The President has assembled a group of technocrats and people who he believes can work with him, but the truth is, will the current system we operate allow them to deliver the goods? I believe we just must change the system of government that we run in Nigeria. I believe in a return to a parliamentary system of government and I also believe that a confederal system of government is the way to go to achieve the development we desire.
Some have accused the President of appointing people based on compensation and not capacity. What do you think about this?
The President that I know is somebody who knows how to get the best people to work with him. When he was the governor of Lagos State, he got the best people and made a good impact in the state, and I believe he is also set to do the same across the country. He has identified people that I believe are competent both young and old. I believe that moving forward, if we can embark on political reforms, we will be able to make progress.
There are concerns that at a time when the President is supposed to be cutting down the cost of governance, he is planning to have the highest number of ministers so far. What is your view on this?
Yes, we may see it that way but there are other ways you can cut down the cost of governance. Oronsaye report is there. If we implement it, despite the number of ministers you have, you will drastically reduce the cost of governance.
Your political party, the All Progressives Congress, just appointed the former Governor of Kano State, Abdullahi Ganduje, as the National Chairman, what do you make of this appointment?
The former governor is a political associate of the President and the President will always tell you that power is not served a la carte; you have to struggle for power. I believe he did well as the governor of Kano State and I believe strongly that the best is what we have got at this time.
How do you think this administration can fight corruption?
For me, my position on corruption is to change this system of government that is prone to corruption to a parliamentary system. Any other thing will amount to scratching the issue and trying to find a cosmetic solution to the big problem. If you recall when Nigeria made progress in terms of good governance, it was the parliamentary system we were operating. You can use some measures to reduce corruption like what the President said that his own way is to create a credit economy where people can have access to finance to buy whatever they needed. If you can adopt a parliamentary system of government, you will see corruption take its leave.
But do you think the current administration has the political will to restructure Nigeria?
Time will tell, but I believe President Tinubu that I know who is a federalist, who, as governor of Lagos State, instituted action against the Federal Government regarding many issues concerning federalism. I believe he is in a better position to look at the need to restructure Nigeria. I try to avoid the use of the word, ‘restructure’, I try to substitute reforms for restructuring. Once you engage in political reforms, there are many things that will be done. For instance, what you need to do is to ensure that the revenue allocation formula that we presently operate is done in favour of having the states have a greater percentage of revenue at their disposal.
As the former Postmaster General of NIPOST, how relevant is the agency to the development of the country?
First, we need to interrogate the importance that successive governments attached to NIPOST as a veritable tool for social economic development. In the last 25 years, Nigeria Post Service has not been receiving subventions from the Federal Government; that is to say no budgetary allocations. NIPOST is expected to source its own resources in order to embark on its programmes and that has become very difficult because the processes are driven by technology and technology is not cheap. If NIPOST does not have money, it becomes difficult to fulfill its mandate. It is important for the government of the day to know that NIPOST has a massive national infrastructure located in all the nooks and crannies of Nigeria. It is such an important tool for the eradication of poverty in Nigeria. That is why today, the 20 richest countries of the world all have their POSTAL administration well-structured service and robust postal administration. It simply means there is a nexus between the socio-economic development of any country and its postal administration that the previous governments had not done. I will advise the government of President Bola Tinubu to see the need to invest in the postal service, revolutionise its processes in order for the government to use it as a tool for lifting people out of poverty.
Are you saying the potential of NIPOST has not been fully harnessed by previous governments?
Absolutely! In order climes, they invest in the post, for many years, the United State Postal Service has been operating at a loss, but the government knows the importance of the postal service. You know it is important to the conduct of elections in the United States of America and therefore they continue to invest in it; the same thing for the United Kingdom. Here n Nigeria, it is because we really don’t understand the role of the modern-day post office. People think the post office is all about selling stamps. That is not the case; the post of today has gone beyond selling stamps. One of the ways to ensure that the potential is fully harnessed is for the government to invest in digital addressing systems that will be driven by NIPOST in conjunction with private companies like Grass Roots Addressing and Identity Network because in line with the prescription of the United Nations Development Programme, the future of public governance all over the world rest between public partnership with the private sector.
But it is believed that the advancement of technology may have negatively affected the fortunes of NIPOST. Don’t you think so?
I do not agree with that because what technology has taken from the POST, it has given much more back to the POST that it can use to compensate itself. E-commerce is exponentially growing in Africa and the United Nations has even said it will further grow by 50 per cent and one of the drivers of e-commerce is the Digital Addressing System and once the POST adopts the system, it will be in the position to deliver parcels, packages, etc, and make a lot of money from it. The 21st century postal administration that is driven by technology is profitable by embarking on e-commerce, financial services, and other initiative. Technology cannot take away the fortune of the postal service if it is well-positioned and well-funded by the government.
What were the challenges you faced as the postmaster general of NIPOST?
The first challenge was the lack of technology, the ticketing infrastructure, and the low staff morale. The truth of the matter is that the government has not been funding the post office. It was really difficult to get things moving.
One major issue in government is the misappropriation of funds. What were the efforts you made to ensure the blocking of leakages and stopping the misappropriation of funds?
I simply looked at the books and I saw the way Nigeria was being run. Recurrent expenditure was huge, and recurrent expenditure of NIPOST was high. So, I instructed the director of finance and investment at that time to ensure that the recurrent expenditure was brought down drastically and that assisted.
Nigerians expected fuel subsidy to come to an end before the current administration but they never envisaged that they would face much hardship. What exactly can palliatives do to reduce the current hardship faced by Nigerians?
Addressing policies at the national level is often pushed aside in favour of more immediate policy needs. However, by providing a fundamental knowledge base to inform decision-making and action, help to develop, implement and support other critical national polices, chief of which is the eradication or reduction of poverty.
Based on the research that has been carried and feedback that we have been getting, people are complaining that they spend 70 per cent of their income on transportation which means that a substantial part of the income is spent on transportation and food. I will advise state governments to follow the lead of Ogun State in introducing compressed natural gas and power commercial vehicles with PNG so that the cost of transportation can be drastically reduced. The other is food, and my view is that the state governments have to come up with various initiatives that will help in bringing the cost of fuel down. One of such is the establishment of farmers’ market in local government areas where farmers can through cooperative societies bring their farm products to designated places and the government will buy such products at a low price and then sell those farm products to members of the public at a slight discount. That in itself is a subsidy.
