Immediate past National Vice Chairman of All Progressives Congress, North-West, Salihu Lukman, tells ADEBAYO FOLORUNSHO-FRANCIS about his problems with the leadership of the party and why he remains the most misunderstood politician, among other issues
Many concerned Nigerians have been wondering why you threw away your APC NWC seat despite not being pressured to leave. What is your response to this?
To answer your question, there are a lot of dynamics going on. What appears in the public is not as safe as what people will imagine. It was very clear to me there were forces within the party that were not happy with my role of getting rid of Adamu and the advocacy I had done. I could see the personal danger, which was not just a threat to my life but a threat to my political career, and I am not someone who enjoys good relationships with many party leaders. And sincerely speaking, they gave me a lot of protection, no doubt about it.
But concerning the Progressive Governors’ Forum, there were clear divisions. My role was creating divisions among governors. It was safer for me and the governors to resign, which was what I did. Looking back now, I could see it was not a question of division, but the fact that some people were determined to get me out of the party’s leadership, and I couldn’t just take the risk because if I had allowed them and they succeeded, I would have been damaged. Anything I say thereafter, people would say it is because I am angry, and that I have been thrown out. Based on that, I chose to save myself, which is why I took a lot of time, basically going all over rebuilding my political career. Many felt offended that I resigned in the first place.
Why did you have a problem with the choice of Abdullahi Ganduje as a replacement after Abdullahi Adamu’s removal as the APC national chairman?
Well, we removed Abdullahi Adamu and brought in Ganduje. But Ganduje is just sitting, almost behaving like Adamu. I am sorry, with due respect to him. No meeting is taking place. Sometimes you see people paying courtesy visits. It doesn’t amount to meeting all the obligations the constitution has imposed on him as the national chairman of the party. I think these are the issues.
If today, our judiciary and our law enforcement agencies are working in such a way that they enforce the law as provided in both the constitution and all laws of the country, some of the rascality going on will not take place. But when people believe they have the protection of somebody, which is why people will say Asiwaju should intervene in every crisis. I think this is just where we are.
Will your continuous bashing of the President and party leaders not result in expulsion from the APC?
Look, let me tell you my personal stories. I started facing disciplinary committees from my ‘A’ level. At every stage that I faced a disciplinary committee, I went there with an open mind of ‘I can win’ or ‘I could be thrown out.’ But the good thing is that I wasn’t doing anything selfishly, and God sees my heart. Sometimes protection comes from unexpected quarters. So, look at the most important thing in life and have the best of intentions. Don’t set out to be mean or bad to anybody. I think that is my protection.
I didn’t set out to be mean in the case of (Adams) Oshiomhole, (Mai) Buni, and Adamu, to say they must leave the leadership of the party. No! I intended to draw attention to where the problem lies. When they didn’t listen to me, we continued the advocacy. For me, the first problem in life is fear. Once you conquer fear and, in any case, if I am expelled from the party today, what do I stand to lose? I said the same thing when I was in the PGF with the governors. I told them that I was first a citizen of Nigeria before being a party member and the then DG of the PGF. You can sack me as the DG but I will remain a party member. If you so wish, you can expel me as a party member. I am still a citizen of the Federal Republic of Nigeria. Once you conquer fear, you don’t have any problems.
Some think you keep finding fault in virtually all the leaders of the APC, including party national chairmen and the president. What exactly is your motive?
I think it is quite unfair to say I don’t see anything good. I keep making the point of how close I was with Comrade Adams Oshiomhole when he was going to declare for the national chairman seat. I was one of those who wrote his declaration speech. If I didn’t see anything good in him, I wouldn’t have supported him in the first place. Seeing good in a person, for me, is not to keep quiet when the person is doing the wrong thing.
I think the challenge we have is that many party members become difficult after they have access to power, even when you try to offer advice. Understandably so because they are surrounded by demands, hence they are unable to distinguish between those who genuinely want to support them to succeed and those praise singers who just want to extract some benefits out of them. In the process, people like us become shortchanged, if I can put it that way.
For me, if I discover that I am not able to assess my leaders and they are going wrong, meanwhile it is the society that is at the receiving end of their inability to do the right thing, I will come out and talk. That is why my background is in activism. I didn’t just go into activism because it is fashionable. I went in with my eyes very open because I was hungry for knowledge. I read a lot. So, that is all about Oshiomhole. After Oshiomhole’s leadership was removed and Mai Mala Buni came, all of you were witnesses to that; there was a time when I was assisting the Buni Caretaker Committee to draft some of their statements until the time they decided they wanted to start thinking about whether to have a convention or not. At that point, some of us were phased out.
While your conflict with Oshiomhole and Buni is understandable, what’s your grouse with Tinubu?
In the case of Asiwaju, God knows, I didn’t come out to insult him. Yes, I was shocked when after the removal of Abdullahi Adamu as the national chairman of the APC, the name of Dr Abdullahi Ganduje, who is somebody I respect, started flying around. I said it several times that I didn’t believe he (Tinubu) made the right decision. If you look at our constitution, the first preference is that the state that produced the member of the National Working Committee should have the benefit of nominating the replacement.
Based on that, I thought Nasarawa State should have been given the honour and we are lucky to have somebody like Tanko Almakura, who is, first of all, a founding member of the party. By my own reading of the situation, one of the reasons why he (Almakura) was not considered to emerge as the APC national chairman was because of Abdullahi Adamu’s closeness to Asiwaju.
Now that Asiwaju is the President, I find it so painful and irritating that the entire North-Central is marginalised in the politics of the country under the leadership of Asiwaju. If we keep quiet, we are not helping Asiwaju. I want him to succeed in every respect. I want a situation where long after his tenure, he will be remembered as one of the best presidents Nigeria produced. We are not going to support him by just patting him on the back when he does the wrong things. I am hoping that one of these days, he will correct a number of some of these things.
Have you considered that your frequent conflicts with the President and some APC leaders could cost you an opportunity for a federal appointment?
To the best of my knowledge, I am not always against leaders. And if I am against leaders, why am I still in the party? Go and ask a lot of our leaders from the time of former President Muhammadu Buhari up till now, none of them has seen my CV. I have not gone out looking for an appointment or anything. All the appointments from PGF to even the party, I was invited. I didn’t present myself. This is why it is always painful when some of us request to see the President, and we are being considered as if we are coming to lobby. I am not going to see the President to lobby for an appointment. Not that I don’t like it but that is not my priority.
The position where this country is now needs a lot of selflessness. We are a generation that got almost the best out of this country. But our children are now at the receiving end of poor leadership, Sometimes I am fired up by a high level of anger about what we have today. If anybody is deceiving himself that what we have is okay because he is relatively comfortable, the person is deceiving himself.
Based on the tough times Nigerians are currently facing, what should President Tinubu do to meet their expectations?
First, my belief before now was that immediately after Asiwaju came in, there would be a remarkable distinction between the way government and the party was run under Buhari and the manner it will be run under him. I expected that the organs of the party would be active and through meetings of those organs, Asiwaju would benefit from a lot of advice, and leaders of the party would be able to assess him structurally. That was what we lacked under Buhari. I also believe there would be a lot of national debate on what needs to be done to correct all the problems the country is facing.
I expect that there should be a lot of excitement because that is what democracy is expected to produce based on which citizens will have that sense of pride and belonging. His approval rating was high at least in the first two weeks after his inauguration. I thought that could have been sustained. But somehow, everything declined. I have raised the issue before. First was the decision on the withdrawal of fuel subsidy.
I expected it to be followed immediately with some series of actions that indicate when the country is going to resolve the whole challenge of domestic production of petroleum products because that is where the problem is. Now, all we hear is money that should have been paid for subsidy has been saved. If you remember, it was Lamido Sanusi who once asked the question ‘Where is the dollar? That is the question many people are still asking, and people will legitimately ask those questions. Because somehow a decision has been taken but no follow-up action to ensure the problem that created the subsidy regime has been resolved. It is the same thing with the exchange rate issue.
Whether it is a bankrupt economy, we are part of it. There are even people asking if Buhari had messed up the economy. Who brought Buhari to power? It is all of us in the party. So, we must take those responsibilities. My confidence is that all hope is not lost. I believe Asiwaju can recover himself. I have the confidence that these issues can be addressed. Concerning getting the structures of the party to function, I think Asiwaju needs to challenge people rather than everybody just waiting for him to decide. Everybody needs to sit up.
Do you have any peace of mind after resigning from the APC NWC?
Let me be honest with you; in the beginning, it was quite challenging because it was not something I prepared for. It came almost like nose bleeding. I tell those who are close to me that I only went to check my bank balances after sending the resignation letter and discovered I am as poor as a church mouse. I don’t keep money and I don’t save. I don’t even believe in saving. The only way I save is to invest and luckily, I have a farm and I have poultry. It is just next January it will start producing eggs.
So, I just had to find a way to ensure that at least in terms of my survival, I could manage myself without going around begging people. I tried to do that. I don’t have much. I will say I planned my life very well. So, I won’t sit down here and lie. But after I settled down, I tackled some of the major challenges. I am quite relaxed now, very, very relaxed, which is why within a short period, I could put together all the materials I needed to publish my book.
Some critics believe you were into activism for political leaders to call you for negotiation. How true?
What negotiation? If I was going to negotiate, I would have done so way back and even my career and life trajectory would have been different. I wish my wife was here; she will tell you one of the things that I tortured her with was the possibility of a shorter lifespan. My father died at the age of 59. Today, I am 60. For me at this stage, I am ready to die any moment. So, I will not negotiate. That is why I plan my life in such a way. Look, today, I am as glad as my last child just passed out of NYSC; so, I don’t have school fees to pay.
For me, many people mismanaged their lives and unfortunately, they judge you based on who they are. I have, from the challenges I faced growing up, decided to organise my life in such a way that I would not leave some of the liabilities, for instance, my father left behind. I am praying to Allah to support me to achieve that, and I think I have achieved that.
I am privileged to come from a family that has produced ministers as far back as the 1980s and my uncle was a minister when I was NANS president. To be fair to that man, he did everything to pull me out of activism, including directing me to just concentrate on my studies. There are people still alive who can testify to that. If you go to my family house and ask them how I funded my university education, they don’t know. They don’t even know how I got my job.
